[PD] [announce] Integra Live 1.5 released

Fri Jan 18 20:40:19 CET 2013

So if we wanted to improve the GUI we would have to drop tcl/tk all
together or make it messy and heavy?

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com> wrote:

> >________________________________
>
> > From: Leandro da Mota Damasceno <lemota at gmail.com>
> >To: Pierre-Olivier Boulant <po.boulant at free.fr>
> >Cc: pd-list <pd-list at iem.at>
> >Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 12:33 PM
> >Subject: Re: [PD] [announce] Integra Live 1.5 released
> >
> >
> >The GUI is beautiful!!!!! That's Apache Flex? I don't think we can maket
> tcl/tk look like that on PD, can we?
>
>
> It's not that you can't do that in tk, it's just that tk will get in the
> way of you doing that at nearly
> every turn.  For example, here's the code you'd need to draw a gradient on
> a canvas:
>
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/6100
>
> Buttons would have to be gifs or bitmaps created in some other program (or
> on the fly with some
> hacky code similar to the gradient stuff), unless you use tcl/tk 8.6 in
> which case you could use
> pngs.  You might be able to use the half-implemented tk theming engine to
> get a scrollbar that
> looks like the one in Integra, but you'd probably end up using pngs or
> something for the items in
> the Module Library, or else pull your hair out trying to figure out how to
> get the theme to look
> like that on all platforms when all platforms do _not_ have the same
> building blocks for their
> widgets.  For Pd'ers who like the stripped down, 1990s look it is
> serendipitous, because that is
> all they can get without someone doing an inordinate amount of work to
> make it
> look any other way.  (Just find a gui made with tk that looks anything
> like Integra.)
>
> But I do have a question about:
>
>
> http://www.integralive.org/
>
> Specifically, the png accompanying "Turnkey Audio Processing"--
> specifically the outputs
> of GranularDelay1 going to the inputs of StereoReverb1.  Look quickly then
> answer the
> question:
> Does out1 connect to in1 or in2?
>
> I'm not against bezier curves, but the GUI engine must handle them with
> care or they'll cause
> unnecessary problems.
>
>
> Bezier curves make it more difficult for the user to anticipate ambiguous
> overlaps with cords.
> The user makes connections which are obvious in his/her mind as well as
> obvious when they do
> the physical work with the mouse of connecting each outlet to each inlet.
> (Btw, the user's
> mouse makes a trip between outlet and inlet that is a straight line, so
> the physical action
> no longer correlates with the drawn representation.)  Then the mind tricks
> him/her into thinking that the GUI diagram must be as clear as the mental
> diagram because
> all the steps leading up to the final result were clear.  (This is still a
> problem in Pd, but slightly less
> so because the user is more likely to guess correctly what a straight line
> between a and b looks
> like, and they can consequently anticipate ambiguous overlaps and attempt
> to avoid them before
> making them.)  Then the user goes and teaches a class, or runs an errand,
> and comes back to the patch
> but the mental picture is now gone.  So he/she recreates the mental image
> from the GUI image,
> which is ambiguous, which requires either more work to remember the "real"
> connection or
> actually manipulating the GUI cord with the mouse to see what really
> connects to what.  Requiring
> either type of work breaks with the philosophy of being able to deduce
> what the patch does simply
> by looking at it.  (Btw, I'm still not sure whether your cords overlap or
> not.)
>
>
> So cords should try to repel each other in such a situation, or at least
> color themselves differently
> when they do in fact overlap.  Otherwise you end up with the equivalent of
> a scheme IDE that
> sometimes matches a closing parenthesis with two "candidate" opening
> parentheses but doesn't
> indicate which is the actual match.  Nobody would tolerate such an
> ambiguity in a text-based
> langauge.  We shouldn't in GUIs, either.
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Pierre-Olivier Boulant <
> po.boulant at free.fr> wrote:
> >
> >No problem about the report. :)
> >>
> >>I'm here if you need further testing too. Look me up on IRC freenode
> #dataflow. I'm "pob" over there.
> >>
> >>For what it's worth, the only interaction I have with the GUI is when
> closing. I can actually click on the buttons of the "save" pop up window.
> >>
> >>Cheers
> >>Pierre-Olivier
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>On 18/01/2013 17:15, Jamie Bullock wrote:
> >>
> >>On 18 Jan 2013, at 15:48, Pierre-Olivier Boulant <po.boulant at free.fr>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>>It looks very nice indeed.
> >>>>
> >>>>Running the Windows version, I have a problem with the mouse.
> >>>>I can't interact at all with the GUI. I can click on the menu bar
> (File Edit View etc.), this much works but that's it. The GUI does not
> respond to any clicks.
> >>>>
> >>>>Windows 7, 64bit OS.
> >>>>
> >>>I'm sorry to hear that. I must admit, we haven't yet tested on 64-bit
> Windows, so it's possibly to do with that.
> >>>
> >>>I hope you don't mind but I've added your report to the UserVoice forum:
> >>>
> >>>
> http://integralive.uservoice.com/forums/58883-general/suggestions/3565091-mouse-interaction-not-working-on-64-bit-windows
> >>>
> >>>If you "vote" for the issue, you will get an automatic notification
> when it is resolved.
> >>>
> >>>Jamie
> >>>
> >>
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> >
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