[PD] '$0' in messages again, another proposal? (Was: Pd 0.52 test 2 is out)

Miller Puckette msp at ucsd.edu
Wed Dec 1 21:42:07 CET 2021


I think having a "message" object is a better idea.  Only thing is, it
does raise some interesting design questions of its own - like, what of
sending more than one message; how to specify destination names without
using the ';' separator, and what if we allowed expressions ...

cheers
Miller

On Wed, Dec 01, 2021 at 09:34:15PM +0100, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > what if we introduce double dollar syntax to grab patch arguments?
> Actually, I already thought about that. The problem is that "$" is only
> interpreted as a dollar or dollarsym if it is followed by a number. So
> currently "$$" is not a reserved token, meaning that "$$" is a valid symbol.
> We *could* reserve it, but we risk breaking some patches. Assuming that only
> very few patches will be affected by this change, we might decide that
> extending the functionality of message boxes is more important.
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 01.12.2021 21:22, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > I like the idea.
> > 
> > Em qua., 1 de dez. de 2021 às 17:14, José de Abreu
> > <abreubacelar at gmail.com> escreveu:
> > 
> >     I have an idea about $0
> > 
> >     what if we introduce double dollar syntax to grab patch arguments?
> >     and then inside messages $$1 would be first abstraction argument,
> >     while $1 is the the first element of the list (as it already is)
> > 
> >     this way, $$0 in a message would be what $0 is for an object, $$1
> >     would be what $1 is for an object, and so on (this would be coherent)
> > 
> >     this way we add the ability to access $0 from an object as $$0 in
> >     a message and as a bonus make easier to get the patch arguments
> >     inside a message too.. this makes sense? what do you think?
> > 
> >     Em qua., 1 de dez. de 2021 16:44, Alexandre Torres Porres
> >     <porres at gmail.com> escreveu:
> > 
> >         Context: we have an open PR that allows us to expand '$0' in
> >         messages. I'd like to know if it's been officially rejected so
> >         we can close it for good and settle the debate. Then maybe
> >         think of something else.
> > 
> >         Miller's response:
> > 
> >         Em sáb., 27 de nov. de 2021 às 21:29, Miller Puckette
> >         <msp at ucsd.edu> escreveu:
> > 
> >             I disagree with the "$0" in message box idea.  Why not $1
> >             then?
> >             (Oh, because it already does something different...)
> > 
> >             It would be interestnig to allow message boxes to access
> >             canvas creation
> >             arguments somehow, but not that way.
> > 
> > 
> >         To which me and Christoph argued things like
> >         - /$0 is not a creation argument after all, i.e. it is not
> >         part of "ce_argv". Also, it really //has a different purpose.
> >         (...) $0 would be a special case either way./
> >         - /It was also never documented as an 'argument'. (...) under
> >         a user perspective, we are never aware of it and really expect
> >         to be able to use it inside message boxes so they can
> >         communicate to local [receive] objects (..) We also have
> >         unexpected and weird behaviour in other places. It's all a
> >         matter of documenting./
> >         Now, what I actually have come up as a solution for me, so
> >         far, was designing an external object named "message". It does
> >         all that messages do, they understand comma and semicolons
> >         (and act accordingly). The messages can be set via a right
> >         inlet (with commas and semicolons being possible by escaping
> >         with "\") and the object also acts as a general message
> >         storage object. So the idea is to have something like this
> >         that acts like a message and is an object. Moreover, as an
> >         object, it can also deal with "$1" ... "$2" ... ect as
> >         expected, and as also has been considered here as something
> >         desired.
> > 
> >         If this idea resonates well, I can try and open a PR for it
> >         and we can discuss the design details.
> > 
> >         see screenshot of the object
> > 
> >         cheers
> > 
> > 
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